Our first thought: obviously not a Working Families maneuver to gain sympathy for Rodney. The questions were too sharp, pointed and frankly, hit some of the points Rodney's detractors make against him. Do we think such a Machiavellian move is above a political party? Absolutely not. They are political parties after all. Exactly what would be beneath them? Not this time. So we lay aside our admittedly feverish conspiratorially speculation.
Our second thought was: The Gordon campaign. Wiltshire believes he can win. His supporters believe he can win. Why would the GOP not believe he can win? Perhaps Gordon's camp see Wiltshire as the real threat. However, Gordon has run, in our opinion, the best campaign Gordon can run. He's kept his head down, his nose clean and goes about his business. He gains nothing from this.
Thought number three: The Rensselaer County Republican Committee. Why not? Can't come up with a reason they wouldn't do such a thing. They have in the past, after all.
Number four: The Rensselaer County Democratic Committee. We'd be very surprised (not exactly shocked) if Wade did this. It is not a good political move and Wade usually makes good political moves. We'd like him to be asked the question. We'd like to hear the answer.
Then, we read this comment:
"There were negative questions asked about Madden as well. Interesting that they were conveniently edited out of the audio file on T-spin. It is in fact, a compilation of two different push polls. The first few questions were from the recent poll. That poll asked if the person called was familiar with the candidates, and who they would vote for. The second part of the audio above was from a poll conducted well before the primary. It also included questions about Madden not being a Democrat, and having the council meeting video removed from the city website. Either Franco edited that file, or Wiltshire did." (Oct. 16 Post at 12:18PM).
We can all discount certain comments. This one has a level of detail that could be verified. We hope someone does. If accurate, the finger needs to be pointed at the GOP. It's a great political move that will keep the short-sighted Democrats and WFP people sniping at one another for the remainder of the campaign.
We don't like push polls. They are sleazy. This particular one asked some pointed questions that might be fair in a different context and with a wider variety of possible answers.
TROY POLLOI PUSH POLL RESULTS
The Troy Polloi recently had the opportunity to conduct our own Push Poll. We contacted more than 7 registered voters over the course of 19 minutes. Here are the results:
- 71% of voters agreed that Jim Gordon looks like the groom on a wedding cake.
- 53% of voters agreed that Anastasia Robertson (D-D2) should wear a sombrero to soften her image.
- 73% of female voters agreed that Mark McGrath (R-D2 candidate) reminded them of their first husband.
- 39% of voters agreed that Troy, NY is in New York.
- 89% of voters did not want a 9.3% tax hike.
-9.3% of voters wanted a 89% tax hike.
-89% of voters wanted to kick the ass of those 9.3% of voters.
-35% of voters believe Patrick Madden will ruin Troy by accident. The remainder on purpose.
-61% of voters believe Rodney Wiltshire should hold public hearings about push polls.
-76% of voters believe push polling is a service provided at strip clubs.
32 comments:
Good line about McGrath. Fits perfectly.
Help me! Get him off of me! Please make him stop! He's hurting me!
This is the big leagues, Rodney. If you can't stand the heat, quit whining and drop out. We need a tough leader, not a wimp.
I think it was Crist. he's a sleaze that does this type of thing.
Crist is the one with the woman brought the sexual harassment charges against. they were dismissed because it was untimely. Does he still work at the County? He's still employed?
I with Gordon but he does look like a wedding cake groom.
Push polls smell like RensCo GOP. Just saying. That's pretty much right out of their playbook and they obviously think Rodney is the greater threat.
Rich Crist, guarantee it!
Yes bill. How is dasny
Mirch!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, not Bill.
Crist and Dunne are not running for public office. Gordon is but if he won't address it, there's nothing we can do. Lets talk about what they will do about the tax hike and how to keep it as low as possible. Something that actually effects people's lives.
Imagin what a person must see in the mirror that defends Bill Dunne? Poor man (can't be a women) prayers are all we can offer you.
It does not make sense for Gordon and/or the Reps to make push polls against Wiltshire. Most people following the race on both sides have Madden as stronger than Wiltshire to date. Madden has certainly been better as a campaigner than expected(at least by me and folks I talk with). Wiltshire is effective on social media, but I doubt that's a big factor yet in Troy. Gordon seems to be walking the line between increasing visibility, while letting the Dems(sorry, Mr. Madden, when you're their nominee your a Dem for now) sling arrows at each other rather well.
If the idea is to create more intraparty conflict, the move for Gordon/Crist/(insert villain here) would be an anti-Madden push poll. Perhaps some of the more ardent Madden supporters went a little rogue? However, as has been mentioned here before, those are some crocodile rears being shed by Wiltshire's camp(but rather effectively I might add).
Thanks, Kevin. Samantha says pay your taxes.
He passed out
When Wiltshire sent the attack mailer depicting Madden as a puppet Madden dealt with it, made a statement then moved on and got back to focusing on his campaign and his agenda for Troy. Rodney is going to piss and moan about this push poll forever and put up faked pictures of people taking lawn signs and prove himself to be the seventh grader we know he is. Grow the fuck up Rodney. You're not looking very Mayoral.
Only a handful of people pay attention to this stuff. The average voter won't focus on this race for another week. Only political junkies, including me, follow all this crap in such detail.
I just can't see Gordon doing so much worse than Mantello that the WFP votes won't matter. Maybe the Wiltshire votes wilt, and melt away. Right now, I feel like Rodney has a ceiling and its not high enough to elect Gordon. Then again, I could change my mind in an hour.
Phana - I have a feeling that we are at different ends of the political spectrum and I like your posts because you are smart, funny and fair. I would submit that Madden has gotten smarter about social media. He is posting substantive, positive pieces and people are reading and sharing them. Wiltshire is posting high school level stuff focusing on who has done him wrong. Madden is trying to educate voters while Wiltshire posts pictures of himself mugging at events. Madden is a first time campaigner and he is a quick study. This is Wiltshire's third campaign and yet he he has no message other than look at how bad the other guy is. I do not find Wiltshire's crocodile tears to be effective or compelling.
Without polling, everyone is flying blind. High turnout, I think Madden takes it. Low turnout, Gordon. Medium turnout, do we have to go to absentees? Please god, no! I can't take another election that goes on for a week while we open paper ballots. meanwhile charges fly about fraud, suppression, not enough ballots etc.
I would hate to see the absentees as well. Worst case scenario, Gordon wins and so does some of Rodney's people, maybe Bissember and Cummings, along with Doherty. Bodnar, McGrath and Mantello win, and Sullivan-Teta, D'Arcy, Ryan. Try cobbling together a majority to do anything.
On the other hand, maybe we'll have less partisanship. Will Team troy work with anyone? they seem like the left's version of the Obstructionist Caucus in Congress.
4.29, thank you. For the record my national/ideological orientation requires frequent visits to the dermatologist to scrape callouses off my knuckles. You have a very validate point on PM re:social media. He has done far better as a campaigner than I(and many) expected. However, Rodney is good, and I think a lot of the people here underestimate him. Look at how well he held his support from 2011 to 2013. I think our(political junkies) problem is empathizing with casual voters and trying to figure out how this stuff plays with them.
Weary, interesting take, but I'd like some rationale if you could. My thinking says motivated voters(high turnout) favor Gordon. We can assume higher turnout would be response to high-visibility shootings and the tax increase, and I would guess those are more Republican issues. I don't see Madden successfully playing outsider and capitalizing. Moderate would favor Madden, as he has the best get-out-the-vote team, and low would be Wiltshire's chance to pull off the upset.
No one is talking abut Cox, the true reformer. Not affiliated with any party. Truly independent. He could be the dark horse here if enough people are upset.
There's a really good reason nobody is talking about Cox.....
Cox campaign is just a study in attention. An ego trip. Come to think about it, no different than any politician.
Pat should definitely keep Dunne and staff. That is a hardworking office that gets results. Have Amy o'connor been Corp Counsel. Make Dunne Deputy Mayor.
Jack Cox at the Middle School "debate" was an absolute disaster. I actually went there thinking that he might be a viable outsider, as opposed to the one who claims to be an outsider (because apparently everyone who gets to know him throws him out of their party.) No matter what the question was, Cox couldn't get past the "Every body hates my family, and does us wrong because we live in North Central" shtick. EVERY single question that asked for ideas about moving forward was met with the same crap. To my recollection, the two times that he was forced to expand on that theme, his reply was to parrot Rodney's standard "We'll have to look into that." Rodney, you've been here for four years! Just exactly how long does it take to look into how and where our money is going, and how exactly are we to do something about the fact that income doesn't match expenses? The same has to be said for Jim Gordon. Last years budget was "asinine" to quote Jim, but what proposal of any effective cuts or savings did he ever make? We might be in the minority, but there were votes that he could have gathered to trim the budget before it got this bad. What does he think will happen when it's his turn to make a budget? More magical Dem-think?
Sorry, boys, but I'm not in favor of paying $85k for on the job training. You bring real ideas to this table or you are just SOL to me.
I have never wanted a "None of the above" selection as much as I do for this year. I haven't voted for a Democrat in 30+ years, and this appears to be the year that I need to break my streak. At least Madden seems to know how to make a budget and stick with it.
Lincoln, very thoughtful. I was surprised Jack performed so poorly. His Reddit comments, and Y remarks were solid. It's irrelevant, since I doubt 70% of the electorate know he is running.
I think you have a better case against Rodney than Jim. If you want to buck the establishment, make sure you can do more than block them. If Lou could not form a ad hoc majority with the Council, how the hell does a newcomer with two people in his caucus? Pat clearly is the most experienced. What a lot of us are asking is after watching four years of experienced leadership is can we afford to let these guys get more experience? Perhaps the ability to be more confrontational is as or more important.
Phana,
Not to start up a mutual admiration society here, but I do enjoy that "If you want to buck, do more than block..." comment. If that isn't the most succinct assessment of this past two years, I can't think of a better one.
I certainly agree that Rodney is his own worst enemy, and also my greatest fear for my beloved city. I don't know if you're old enough to remember the bad old days of government by ego that reigned in the late 70s and early 80s. We still haven't come all the way back from that horror.
Jim Gordon strikes me as an ambitious light weight, who has been running for Mayor for at least the same four years as Rodney. At least Rodney had the stones to make a power play for a leadership post, which he then proved himself completely incapable of handling (and the deceitfulness of which has cost him any hope of having an effective working relationship with anyone who sits on this next council.) Jim sits on his hands and exhibits absolutely no capacity for anything other then getting himself in the papers, bitching about everything and anything that he has no control over. He has offered NOTHING productive in this term, and I should believe that he will have the ability to manage a $66 million corporation because....?
I wanted Carmella, and will vote for her again, assumably for Mayor in four years. Until then, the little boys can go on home and grow up some before they come asking to get a seat at the grown ups table.
Just my two cents.
Linc, how about we call it a mutual discussion about the actual candidates society? I was in college in those days, so the memories are really hazy. Here is my take on the key issue of Mayoral leadership with the caveat we are unsure who the Council will be.
Rodney will have problems. At best, he has 3 , more likely 2. Can he make peace with the regular Dems, or form/bludgeon a working group of 5? Highly unlikely. Pat has the skills, but can he stand up to his buddies in the Sanctuary, and confront the groups necessary to make headway on the budget? Three weeks ago, I would have laughed, but there is more to Pat Madden than I originally gave him credit for.
Again, I think you're harsh on Jim. As the junior member of a group of 2, what did you want him to do? Is the relative inexperience an issue? Sure, but look what ideal experience got us in the last election. For the most part, he is saying all the right words, but campaign talk is cheap. I think he has the demeanor to be tough when necessary, but I would like to hear more from him to suggest he has a strategy to deal with fiscal reality.
Fire away....
Phana,
Once again, your analysis of the Rodney as Mayor situation is spot on. He has burned so many bridges that I can't begin to see him as a coalition builder among "his own" much less being able to make peace with the Dems that he has screwed over and shamelessly lied to. (One of my best friends is a Dem Executive Committee member, and I hear all of the good inside stuff from over there on that side.)
Now, I don't mean to be harsh about Gordon, but I do have my opinion, based on a long life of watching people and judging their habits and intentions. I have met Jim at least a dozen times at various events, and have had several substantive discussions with him. He appears to be a very nice young man, but I do not use the word lightweight without a basis. (And aside to Democratus: that groom on the wedding cake line was the best belly laugh I've had since George Carlin died. I damn near wet myself on that one!)
Jim is young and impressionable, which also means that he is susceptible to outside influences, be they good or bad. He doesn't seem to have a real idea of just what it is that he believes, but he's more than happy to tell you that he supports what you believe. Forgive me for looking to the terminology of my military years, but we call that a follower, not a leader. Which brings me right back to the issue I raised earlier: as it is clear that he has been planning a mayoral run for all of this time, wouldn't you think that he would have come up with an organizational plan to raise the issues that he wants to stress during his proposed administration? Is there any evidence at all that such a plan has been contemplated to any degree? Jim does not anticipate events, he REACTS to events. That is the biggest problem we've had with the current administration, and I can't in good conscience vote for four more years of the same failure, but with a pretty young face attached.
Where, of where, is my "None of the above" button?
Linc, cogent and logical argument. I guess one thing the Rodney folks could say was that hey, when you shake the tree, some leaves will fall. However, if bridges are burned, crossing the river is very difficult. The question in everyone's mind is does the primary result indicate Rodney's relative popularity, or the surprise at Pat's candidacy and relatively quiet primary campaign?
Your criticism of Gordon and his campaign is fair, but IMHO, slightly overstated. Is there any doubt Carter would have crushed Reagan on an IQ test, yet like him or hate him, one has to concede RR was by far the better leader. While the Gordon campaign has been short of specifics, he is hardly alone. Any budget message with a high degree of "truthiness" will not be well-received, and all of the candidates appear to know this and have admirably danced around the subject. Perhaps tonight's debate will give one of them a chance to shine, but it's unlikely. I believe the three-way race is creating a degree of uncertainty for both Gordon and Madden, and the Gordon strategy seemed to be(subject to change of course) let the Dems have their war and I will steer clear. I think the Dems just put an end to that strategy yesterday.
The one thing that have surprised me to date is the relative quiet from the Wiltshire campaign. Perhaps I am not in the target demo, but how does the song go, "if you want to get to heaven, you got to raise a little hell." I get that he does not have the budget these guys have, but he is the Council President and has media access.
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