The City of Troy, New York, "Where Henry Hudson Turned Around."

Thursday, December 10, 2015

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The Empire Center's annual report on who makes what was just released. Jim Franco has a quick summary over at the Talk1300 Report. The actual report can be found here.

In terms of average salary for the region's city employees, general employees in Troy average $40,885, second only to Saratoga Springs. For police and fire, we rank 7th out of ten cities, with an average salary of $71,660.



As noted in the Franco article, two Rensselaer County employs made the list of the highest paid in the Capital Region: Timothy Landis and Joel Fatato (some say Fah-tot-o, some say Fah-tay-toe). However, Landis is a medical doctor and practicing psychiatrist. Fatato is the Vice  President of Finance as Hudson Valley Community College.

The report is an interesting read. From page 2 of the report:

"The latest county and municipal payroll database includes 2014-15 fiscal year payroll
information for full-time and part-time workers actively enrolled in the pension system
as of August 2015. The figures used to compute the averages include regular pay,
overtime and pay for unused sick and vacation time. It is important to note that the
figures do not include pension contributions, health insurance, and other fringe
benefits, elements of total compensation that can add 35 percent or more to salary costs."


55 comments:

Anonymous said...

What about overtime for the parasite police and fire?

Anonymous said...

" that can add 35% or more to salary cost ..."

Don't get suckered into that misleading characterization that averages many salaries over many places.
The fact is that that health, fringe and bennies are calculated at an additional whopping 90% for police and fire salaries in Troy.
For those of you in South Troy I'll make it easy for you;
Every cop and firemen making 100k in annual pay actually costs you 190k.
You like heroes? Heroes are expensive sugar bear.

Phana24JG said...

Not to rag on the police, but there are other costs associated with police officers. I am not sure if the city self-insures for police liability, but that is a hefty premium. The vehicles used by the PD are about four times as costly per mile versus the normal vehicle. Troy probably does better than smaller PDs simply on economies of scale, but it is a lot.

Anonymous said...

I'm from ST , It's actually 87%. Dickbag.

Anonymous said...

Glad to see Troy's general employees are #2 and the Police/Fireman are # 7.

Anonymous said...

Would you be kind enough to itemize that additional whopping 90%?

Anonymous said...

Phana, the City typically has insurance for the police if there's a civil rights suit. Bailey, Kelleher & Johnson is the firm that is usually called upon and they are insurance defense counsel. Quite good, too. The city may have a high deductible but I'm not sure about that.

You're right about the vehicles but that is just the cost of doing business. I am not sure what premiums on such policies would cost but they are necessary in this day and age, unfortunately.

I think the pension and health benefits are the killers for government budgets, especially when people are living to 80, 90, when they used to live until 65, 70.

Phana24JG said...

6.02 You are absolutely correct. My point was that when you look at the cost of a police officer, there is even more to it than just salary and benefits. I found this report from a small NJ township that lists the costs in an easy-to-read format. http://www.middlepd.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/2011-MTPD-Cost-Presentation-Compatibility-Mode.pdf

Anonymous said...

Isn't there more to EVERY job than just salary and benefits?

Anonymous said...

It's right in the budget. Are you denying it? Go look.

Anonymous said...

Frig all you! We are Heros and you will all pay.

Phana24JG said...

Of course there are additional costs for every employee beyond wages and benefits. My point is simply that these costs are far higher for some occupations, and police officer is one. This is one reason why officials must avoid these "mandated staffing" contracts.

Anonymous said...

You're right. Get rid of minimum staffing. One cop and one fire truck on duty should be plenty to cover all of Troy, right?

Anonymous said...

In order to save money, the city will have no firemen or police every other day. Residents will be instructed not to fall 911, but to call you instead, so you can finally have your chance to be a real "hero". Kindly post your number below so residents can be advised who they should contact in the event of an emergency.

Anonymous said...

4:39PM,
We are still waiting for you to itemize that additional whopping 90%.

Anonymous said...

Did our former pudgy, moonfaced, slob of a mayor just purchase the former chubby building on 114th and 5th? I heard that instead of being called chubbys he will call it fat slob! After himself

Democratus said...

Anyone willing to bet that the Watervliet cops won't be number one on the list next year, after they clean house.

Anonymous said...

Phana,

Your revised point and follow-up opinion is exactly why "mandated staffing" contracts are an absolutely essential inclusion in every contract between public safety employees and a municipality.

Poor planning and wishful thinking has the city in a pretty bad financial mess. Without mandated staffing, the knee jerk, short sighted, bean counter solution would be to temporarily or permanently reduce the number of rank and file cops and firemen.

One car in Zone 4 or closing a firehouse for 24 hours may very well chip away at the financial mess, but it comes at the expense of the safety of our cops, firemen, and every person within the city limits during that 24 hour period.

Totally unacceptable and a bad idea that won't ever be implemented because of mandated staffing requirements.

Anonymous said...

I agree with 10:02. I do not think though that this is a financial mess as mess denotes the budget being all screwed up down the line. The major problem was that damned 1.9 million pension deferment. All the elected officials knew about it and no one talked about it until the last minute. They needed to work on that all year to avoid the nuttiness. That includes the mayor as well as the council.

Anonymous said...

No one will have to worry about there being any cops. 4 have left this month for other agencies. More to come.

Phana24JG said...

10.02, I understand the rationale behind your position. However, as the residents of several US cities have learned, bankruptcy is not a pleasant alternative. I agree that public safety is the last place to cut our budget, but in our present condition, no department can be sacrosanct. Our current MAC debt which is the source of many of our problems, was caused in large part because of these handcuffs in the early 90s.

Anonymous said...

Im not the original poster but I do have some familiarity with the highly underfunded NYS P&F ERS , I am most informed on the FD side of things.
The city currently uses a formula that reflects an average of the previous fiscal years HI costs to determine the current benefit cost per employee. In fiscal year 2015 the cost of a family plan is factored to be $2756.18 per month. Family Dental is $889.73 per month.
The employer contribution to the NYS P&F ERS is based on the fiscal health of the fund portfolio. It's widely known that the P&F ERS is heavily underfunded and that the mandated employer contributions are projected to rise 25% - 30% in the next fiscal year.
Currently on averaged the city pays an amount approximately equal to 42% of each members gross annual earned salary.
If you took the time to factor in clothing , stipend, holiday , longevity , specialty and other loo loo's the 90% figure does not seem all that unrealistic.
It should be pointed out that shift work is required of these uniform members and they they are often in peril. I say it's money well spent.

Anonymous said...

As long as cops have kids, we'll have cops.

Darius said...


Good riddance. Not one of these carpetbaggers lives inside the city. They come here to town like they're some sort of army of occupation, lording it over and looking down on the citizens who pay their salary. Now they're prepared to sell their meager and measly souls for a little extra money. May God protect the citizens of those suburban towns where these losers will land.

And may we PLEASE have a selection of real Trojans to work here (and NOT just TPD/ TFD), while living here, and paying taxes here, and raising their kids here. It's called investment in your community. If City employees aren't prepared to invest their own time and money in the community that pays them, why the hell are we letting them draw the dividends?

Enough is enough.

Anonymous said...

Not in Troy.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, the sky is falling. Don't believe the hype, they're lined up at the door to come here to tip off drug dealers , release 911 tapes and get cancer treatment.
Viva Las Vegas!

Anonymous said...

Really? Not one of us lives in the city, huh? That's sure news to me. I could have SWORN I lived in the city of Troy... But hey, what do I know? Its only the neighborhood I'm raising my family in. I guess you know my home better than I do.

Anonymous said...

"Selection of real Trojans". Why don't you take the test then. If they are hiring tpd/tfd from other towns, it's only because there aren't enough troy residents either willing to even take the test or who can make the minimum qualifications. Any civil service job in the country, residents always get hiring preference. That doesn't mean they can get hired without taking the test to begin with or without meeting the standards. Why don't you take the next opportunity that comes around?

Anonymous said...

9:54 not looking to argue. The TPD takes transfers and ignores the civil service list which has Troy residents on it. The reason is financial in that the city saves thousands on the training. I've been told they will go to the list in order to select someone in particular as in a cops son or daughter. That is not a complaint but reality as many children follow in the same path as their parents. I believe the TFD has many family members also.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it funny how the firemen who post from their lazy boys down at the Hero Hut on 6 th ave always bring the cops into this. Time to close 2 stations and get the ambulance service back into the private sector. Can any of you guy tell us the population of Schenectady and how many firehouse they have?

Anonymous said...

5:08PM,

Those figures, if accurate, are staggering. They really make you appreciate the commitment of a new hire with a family who makes around 40K before taxes and is required to pay 15% of his benefits. They also help me understand how a 25 year old gal with no visible means of support can afford to have six children.

You seem to be somewhat of an "insider". Are there better deals to be had?

Clothing($500?) and longevity($1,500?) I understand, and Holiday Pay is not FD or PD specific, so what are the "specialty and other loo loo's" that bring the on top of salary total to 90K for the FD guy who is making 100K?

Speak slowly, I grew up in South Troy.




Anonymous said...

This is news to you people? It's old news, these contracts are unbelievable lucrative. I don't blink an eye at 90% over salary.
You're in denial.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't say the sky is falling or any hype. Cops are leaving for better paying agencies. Troy can't afford to pay cops what other municipalities make. Simple economics, more pay for a less stressful job.

Darius said...


Yes, Aaron, you live in the city, and for that, THANK YOU. Now I won't ask for the addresses of the four who are bailing out for money, but how about you at least give us their home zip codes. You know just as well as I do that not one of the four has chosen to live in the city of Troy, which pays them a living wage. But they won't hesitate to transfer their loyalty and skip out for a little more money. Not, there's dedication for you! True professionals, indeed.

And 9:54, I have taken Civil Service exams, and done quite well thank you. I am retired now, so am a little too old to be trying to get a slot with TPD. But when I worked (CS- #1 on the exam) for the city, I lived in the city. When I worked (CS- #2 on the exam) for NYS, I lived in this city. While retired, I live in this city. I stand by my opinion: if you get paid by the city, you damned well ought to be proud enough, and dedicated enough to invest your time and money into making this city economically viable. Not to repeat myself, but if you aren't prepared to do that one simple thing, you are by definition a carpetbagger, and good riddance to you and all others like you.

Anonymous said...

Schenectady has 2 less stations, yes. They have the same manpower as Troy (more firemen per rig), and their starting pay is about 15k higher. Try again, maybe?

Anonymous said...

A man's loyalty should lie with his family above all else. If he is able to find a better opportunity that the city of Troy is unwilling to match, he has every right to pursue it and better his family.

You're right, the city paycheck should expect loyalty in return. That is returned in dividends by a police officer risking his life and being willing to lay down his life for the city and its residents. But a police officer's wife and children do not draw a city paycheck. Why should they be forced to live in a neighborhood plagued with violent crime and burned down homes?

Anonymous said...

Oink oink mo money money !

Anonymous said...

The TPD will take a big hit this week. For all you officers don't ever forget you voted for and carried the water for Lou and Fitzgerald. Will you cover his handcuffed wrists when Teddy perp walks him?

Anonymous said...

6:34 if that's your attitude toward the city you're paid to protect and serve, then Troy doesn't want you. As a resident or an employee. Don't let the door hit you on your entitled, donut fattened ass on the way out.

Anonymous said...

@5;27 viewing your comments on Troy vs Schenectady FDs I don't know if that's true or not. You say Schenectady has two less firehouses than Troy yet left out a very important FACT, they have a population of about 20,000 more than Troy. Please explain that.

And if we closed two firehouses wouldn't we have more men per rig?

Anonymous said...

There won't be a problem finding cops who would want to work in Troy. The problem will be retaining these cops who become veterans who might look to leave.

Anonymous said...

Not everything in life is a simple as that. There are a lot more factors in play for determining the number of firehouses, the apparatus assigned there, and the locations of firehouses than simply total city population. Things such as age, size, construction type, and occupancy of buildings play a huge factor. Geographic layout of a city of area, streets and access of emergency vehicles are considered. Along with ISO ratings (how many fire engines, their location, water supplies, and manning play massive roles in determing fire insurance costs).

While the general population size is important, statistics such as age of population, socioeconomic factors, building ages and construction types, etc play even larger roles when it comes to amount of EMS emergencies, number of structure fires, and life hazards along with the speed at which a fire spreads and causes more damage.

Anonymous said...

I believe that every cop and fireman receives "on top of salary" benefits that total a minimum of 90% of their contract salary.

I also believe that Elvis is still alive and is currently working as a stable boy on a unicorn farm in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania.

Anonymous said...

OK, but isn't Troy and Schenectady about the same as in age of houses, geographical size and house construction? Because of Schenectady's population size they would have more houses and structures that would require additional firehouses. Something is amiss here.

Anonymous said...

Frank Merola got his kid a job by changing the contract and got a way with it so wy can't anyone else.

Anonymous said...

Who cares. It's the veteran cops disclosing drug information to criminals, and stealing evidence for political purposes. Good riddence!

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed this thread. Mature adults disagreeing and stating their opinions without being attacked by Harry haters or Bill Dunne haters.

Anonymous said...

How do you decide how many frisbees to have in each firehouse?

Anonymous said...

Everyone deserves health insurance. Mrs. Casale - Gross and the children did nothing wrong. Why should they suffer?

Anonymous said...

Mrs. Casale and the kids shouldn't suffer. However she married Brian and he was convicted of a crime and left the PD without 20 years which contractually would allow them benefits. Are you saying there should be special rules for Mrs. Casale and her kids? As you say "Everyone deserves health insurance" isn't that the reason for Obamacare?

Anonymous said...

Maybe you are not familiar with who the Casales are? The are not the types to go on Obama care. The city plan is known as a Cadillac plan and they literally drive Cadillacs.

Anonymous said...

Maybe they should drive their Cadillacs to the health insurance store and pay for it themselves then?

Anonymous said...

your obsession with harry is not healthy!

Anonymous said...

Don't be stupid! It's two frisbees per barbecue grill , everyone knows that.

Phana24JG said...

Everyone deserves health insurance? Do people ever read the Constitution? Where is the right to health insurance?